jkays94
07-10 02:39 AM
It seems several persons are already discrediting the lawsuit and from the comments I have seen, it is apparent that some have not read the entire complaint.
In order to understand how a civil lawsuit works one needs to understand that in a complaint, one makes no legal arguments, does not cite case or precedent law but only cites the simple facts. The other side can respond to the complaint and deny or accept the allegations in part or in whole. Many cases do not go to trial, they end up in settlements or are decided through summary judgement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment) (for the plaintiff or the defendants) if the case has undisputable matters of facts and one of the parties petitions for it. Several processes also take place ie Discovery long before an actual trial. I recommend reading the following wikipedia entry to familiarize one at a high level with the processes and rules involved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rule_of_Civil_Procedure
To get to the core legal arguments behind the case, one needs to read the counts (they are only stated and not argued/expounded on starting pg 13). Namely those are:
COUNT I: VIOLATION OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (constitutional rights issue)
COUNT II: VIOLATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedures_Act)
COUNT III: DECLARATORY JUDGMENT ACT (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00036.htm)
COUNT IV: EQUAL ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT (http://www.hhs.gov/dab/guidelines/eaja.html)
COUNT V: PROMISSORY ESTOPPEL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_estoppel#Promissory_estoppel)
There are several laws cited above, its thus puzzling to see requests for one to cite the laws USCIS/DOS is accused of violating when its all there in the lawsuit. The plaintiff has the burden of proving the counts they have stated at the appropriate time and not in the complaint. One does not play all their cards in the initial complaint.
Even more puzzling is the persistent fear that there would be retributory action from USCIS. Judges do not take kindly to such behavior and USCIS would have no chance defending itself on charges of retaliatory actions.
In order to understand how a civil lawsuit works one needs to understand that in a complaint, one makes no legal arguments, does not cite case or precedent law but only cites the simple facts. The other side can respond to the complaint and deny or accept the allegations in part or in whole. Many cases do not go to trial, they end up in settlements or are decided through summary judgement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment) (for the plaintiff or the defendants) if the case has undisputable matters of facts and one of the parties petitions for it. Several processes also take place ie Discovery long before an actual trial. I recommend reading the following wikipedia entry to familiarize one at a high level with the processes and rules involved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rule_of_Civil_Procedure
To get to the core legal arguments behind the case, one needs to read the counts (they are only stated and not argued/expounded on starting pg 13). Namely those are:
COUNT I: VIOLATION OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (constitutional rights issue)
COUNT II: VIOLATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedures_Act)
COUNT III: DECLARATORY JUDGMENT ACT (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00036.htm)
COUNT IV: EQUAL ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT (http://www.hhs.gov/dab/guidelines/eaja.html)
COUNT V: PROMISSORY ESTOPPEL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_estoppel#Promissory_estoppel)
There are several laws cited above, its thus puzzling to see requests for one to cite the laws USCIS/DOS is accused of violating when its all there in the lawsuit. The plaintiff has the burden of proving the counts they have stated at the appropriate time and not in the complaint. One does not play all their cards in the initial complaint.
Even more puzzling is the persistent fear that there would be retributory action from USCIS. Judges do not take kindly to such behavior and USCIS would have no chance defending itself on charges of retaliatory actions.
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va_dude
08-21 10:08 AM
Uscis has done nothing wrong.
This person who posted the new thread seems to have come in to the country without even a passport. How is that legal?
How in the world can we expect Uscis to overlook all that? Don't criticize uscis for doing their job right (for once) :)
This person who posted the new thread seems to have come in to the country without even a passport. How is that legal?
How in the world can we expect Uscis to overlook all that? Don't criticize uscis for doing their job right (for once) :)
53885
08-15 08:51 PM
If people were not busy preparing for Sept 18th DC rally, this thread would have been 20 pages plus, but if you REALLY want to discuss some thing then here it is........
Employment Based (EB) Green Card (GC) Laws
� The yearly GC quota is 140K. This includes GC for spouse and children. On an average, GCs are given to ~60K families.
� Each country is allotted 7% (of 140K) GCs (equally distributed among EB-1, EB-2 and EB-3) plus any unused visa from other countries. For India, average numbers of EB GCs issued in last seven years were 32K (~12K families).
� As per USCIS Ombudsman report
o Between 2001-07, USCIS was not able process all applications and hence ~155K GCs went waste as unused GCs in a year can not be reused in following years. This was most likely due to resource constraints.
o The report estimates the submission of 500K-750K (yes 500K+) AOS applications between June 1 and August 17 2007.
o FBI security checks may be the single biggest obstacle to the timely and efficient delivery of immigration benefits.
� There were ~200K pending EB Adjustment of Status (AOS) or I-1485 applications as of June 1st.
� So far EAD renewal has been taking around 3 months. Due to the volume of applications, EAD renewal may take 3-9 months. Thus, you may have to apply for renewal more frequently.
� FBI security check backlog is likely to get worse, because the August USCIS fee increase has prompted a 50 percent rise in new naturalization applications so far this year.
� EB Immigration reform does not have enough support in Congress (failure of SKILL, STEM ..). As a matter of fact, it does not even get enough support to make it debatable, let alone final voting.
� The laws need to be changed and the process improved to fix the situation.
What does it mean?
� There will be around 1Million AOS/I-485) applications by Aug 17 which will take 1M/140K = 7+ years to clear the backlog. Thus, late priority dates will remain retrogressed for several years.
� Some, who could not file AOS by 08/17, may have to wait for several years (5+ years).
� Longer EAD/AP renewals cycle and 1 year validity may have the following affects.
o You will have to stop working, if your EAD is not renewed in time.
o Several employers (and rightly so) may view EAD as a temporary permit and may be reluctant to hire you.
� You have to be in the same position with same job responsibilities for an indefinite time period, otherwise your GC application will be rejected.
� If you were unmarried at the time of filing and planning to bring spouse to the USA upon marriage, you will need to continue on current status (e.g. H-1B) or wait till your PD become current.
Immigration Voice (IV) Executive and Legislative Efforts
� Lobbying is an efficient tool to influence law and rule making.
� IV was very active in lobbying for CIR 2006, which was passed in Senate but failed in House.
� IV grass-root effort (flower campaign + San Jose Rally) was an important reason for retraction of July Visa Bulletin.
� Due to upcoming presidential elections, next congress session in October�07 may be our only window of opportunity for several years to influence the lawmakers.
Your options:
a) Struggle for several years.
b) Leave USA
c) Help yourself by joining IV.
Employment Based (EB) Green Card (GC) Laws
� The yearly GC quota is 140K. This includes GC for spouse and children. On an average, GCs are given to ~60K families.
� Each country is allotted 7% (of 140K) GCs (equally distributed among EB-1, EB-2 and EB-3) plus any unused visa from other countries. For India, average numbers of EB GCs issued in last seven years were 32K (~12K families).
� As per USCIS Ombudsman report
o Between 2001-07, USCIS was not able process all applications and hence ~155K GCs went waste as unused GCs in a year can not be reused in following years. This was most likely due to resource constraints.
o The report estimates the submission of 500K-750K (yes 500K+) AOS applications between June 1 and August 17 2007.
o FBI security checks may be the single biggest obstacle to the timely and efficient delivery of immigration benefits.
� There were ~200K pending EB Adjustment of Status (AOS) or I-1485 applications as of June 1st.
� So far EAD renewal has been taking around 3 months. Due to the volume of applications, EAD renewal may take 3-9 months. Thus, you may have to apply for renewal more frequently.
� FBI security check backlog is likely to get worse, because the August USCIS fee increase has prompted a 50 percent rise in new naturalization applications so far this year.
� EB Immigration reform does not have enough support in Congress (failure of SKILL, STEM ..). As a matter of fact, it does not even get enough support to make it debatable, let alone final voting.
� The laws need to be changed and the process improved to fix the situation.
What does it mean?
� There will be around 1Million AOS/I-485) applications by Aug 17 which will take 1M/140K = 7+ years to clear the backlog. Thus, late priority dates will remain retrogressed for several years.
� Some, who could not file AOS by 08/17, may have to wait for several years (5+ years).
� Longer EAD/AP renewals cycle and 1 year validity may have the following affects.
o You will have to stop working, if your EAD is not renewed in time.
o Several employers (and rightly so) may view EAD as a temporary permit and may be reluctant to hire you.
� You have to be in the same position with same job responsibilities for an indefinite time period, otherwise your GC application will be rejected.
� If you were unmarried at the time of filing and planning to bring spouse to the USA upon marriage, you will need to continue on current status (e.g. H-1B) or wait till your PD become current.
Immigration Voice (IV) Executive and Legislative Efforts
� Lobbying is an efficient tool to influence law and rule making.
� IV was very active in lobbying for CIR 2006, which was passed in Senate but failed in House.
� IV grass-root effort (flower campaign + San Jose Rally) was an important reason for retraction of July Visa Bulletin.
� Due to upcoming presidential elections, next congress session in October�07 may be our only window of opportunity for several years to influence the lawmakers.
Your options:
a) Struggle for several years.
b) Leave USA
c) Help yourself by joining IV.
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Macaca
06-13 05:23 PM
Please post your concerns in Employment Based (EB) Skilled Immigration Applicants (http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?boardid=1042&threadid=314286&boardsparam=Page%3D2)
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newuser
04-20 10:49 PM
Please do attend this tomorrow and make it a successfull event.
All the best .
All the best .
sledge_hammer
07-01 03:42 PM
pappu and logiclife, you said you'll give us an update on the situation, we are waiting.
Thanks!
P.S: I don't mean to ask this question in a bad way!
Thanks!
P.S: I don't mean to ask this question in a bad way!
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sodh
07-24 10:44 PM
I was on OPT but my I140 has a different number than the one on my OPT.
They are talking about Allien#.
They are talking about Allien#.
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gc03
07-24 03:36 PM
Mr. Gonz�lez,
I have a question on retrogression in Employment Based (EB) Visas. I am in the USA LEGALLY for the past 7 + years and am still waiting for my Green Card (Permanent Residency) in the employment based category. How long do I have to wait? With current retrogression of the dates, I cannot apply for adjustment of status for another 5 or more year. My green card process is going on and on for the past 4 + years. The situation is very disappointing one and all. My spouse is having Research Doctorate and waiting for my Permanent Residency to contribute to the economy and society.
My Question:
Is it possible to you allowing filing of I-485/EAD even if the visa number is not available? The Adjust Status of the case would obviously happen only after visa number becomes available.
Regards,
I have a question on retrogression in Employment Based (EB) Visas. I am in the USA LEGALLY for the past 7 + years and am still waiting for my Green Card (Permanent Residency) in the employment based category. How long do I have to wait? With current retrogression of the dates, I cannot apply for adjustment of status for another 5 or more year. My green card process is going on and on for the past 4 + years. The situation is very disappointing one and all. My spouse is having Research Doctorate and waiting for my Permanent Residency to contribute to the economy and society.
My Question:
Is it possible to you allowing filing of I-485/EAD even if the visa number is not available? The Adjust Status of the case would obviously happen only after visa number becomes available.
Regards,
more...
pappu
12-27 10:02 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Resident_Card#Other_Immigr ation_Sites
for some reason these people delete our links whenever we put it. In the past I spent a lot of time to go on each of these diff pages related to immigration, greencard, indian americans , chineese americans etc and inserted IV links in their content as well as external links but everytime the editors have deleted them. Dont know why? maybe I dont know much about wikipedia and how it works.
thanks for the initiative, go_gc_way. and thanks to all those that helped in this effort. Pls. continue to help spread the message on various sites.
for some reason these people delete our links whenever we put it. In the past I spent a lot of time to go on each of these diff pages related to immigration, greencard, indian americans , chineese americans etc and inserted IV links in their content as well as external links but everytime the editors have deleted them. Dont know why? maybe I dont know much about wikipedia and how it works.
thanks for the initiative, go_gc_way. and thanks to all those that helped in this effort. Pls. continue to help spread the message on various sites.
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kopra
09-20 05:15 PM
I Agree that the economy is in a mess. But i wouldnt completly blame the Greedy CEO's and board of directors. Some part of this is with the common people . Many of these people took those fancy loans thinking that by buying a million dollar home ( even though they cant afford it) and selling it after an year for 2 million dollars created this issue. Now their debt is our ( tax payers) debt as they walked out .
With the new proposal of Fed pumping in 700 Billion dollars to recuse all these companies will cause inflation and prices will skyrocket.
As a Side note, many immigrants will be going back to their home country just bacause they cant afford these. Numbersusa will be happy as the "numbers" will be going down...
To summarize this briefly.
The rescue plan = Transfer the "crap" from the balance sheet of the banks to the balance sheet of the US gov't and taxpayers. The government is buying rotting potatos for cold hard cash.
Benefits are nearer term, Consequences are longer term.
Consequesces will be:
1) Bigger deficits, budget especially
2) Less Gov't investments in infrastructure, healthcare, education etc. As the money is needed to feed the interest repayments and other obligations.
3) Higher interest rates for everything from mortgages, credit cards auto loans student loans...... you name it.
4) Higher taxes, federal and state and city.
5) Lower US dollar and higher inflation.
Unfortunately for us the recklessness of the management of the economy of this decade will be felt as a drag on progress for a good part our working lifetimes. This was a sad and unnecessary development brought about by pure greed and an ineffective government.
With the new proposal of Fed pumping in 700 Billion dollars to recuse all these companies will cause inflation and prices will skyrocket.
As a Side note, many immigrants will be going back to their home country just bacause they cant afford these. Numbersusa will be happy as the "numbers" will be going down...
To summarize this briefly.
The rescue plan = Transfer the "crap" from the balance sheet of the banks to the balance sheet of the US gov't and taxpayers. The government is buying rotting potatos for cold hard cash.
Benefits are nearer term, Consequences are longer term.
Consequesces will be:
1) Bigger deficits, budget especially
2) Less Gov't investments in infrastructure, healthcare, education etc. As the money is needed to feed the interest repayments and other obligations.
3) Higher interest rates for everything from mortgages, credit cards auto loans student loans...... you name it.
4) Higher taxes, federal and state and city.
5) Lower US dollar and higher inflation.
Unfortunately for us the recklessness of the management of the economy of this decade will be felt as a drag on progress for a good part our working lifetimes. This was a sad and unnecessary development brought about by pure greed and an ineffective government.
more...
onemorecame
10-18 12:15 PM
any one else.. who got any update after filling RFE?
I got soft LUD on Oct 12.... nothing after that :confused:
I got soft LUD on Oct 12.... nothing after that :confused:
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ItsLife
06-10 09:34 PM
Incorrect. You have to submit proof of employment. Basically a letter from employer. If you are unemployed that that will raise a red flag and you cannot renew your EAD anyways. So current and future employment letter is a must for getting EAD. Sometimes they even ask you for salary slips if they suspect your employment. In this proposed amendment the employer also has an obligation to record layoffs and inform government. That makes it very tough for EAD guys to renew their EADs. Even if you are not working for the same company that filed your EAD, USCIS record can show there were layoffs and your applications will be in trouble. Expect lot of RFE and denials. Remember AC21 denials last year?
-----
Once you get your EAD and move on you dont have to worry about this stupid memo. Anyone who is trying to fool you is scaring you including this stupid eastIndia. Dont spread false rumours.
-----
Once you get your EAD and move on you dont have to worry about this stupid memo. Anyone who is trying to fool you is scaring you including this stupid eastIndia. Dont spread false rumours.
more...
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spicy_guy
06-10 07:50 PM
Done!
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v7461558
07-16 10:37 PM
Here's another potential way to go. Don't know if anyone has the balls to pursue it, but it may be quite effective.
IRS states "The IRS continues to investigate promoters of frivolous arguments and to refer cases to the Department of Justice for criminal prosecution." http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=155289,00.html
Someone (preferably a lawyer) can write a letter to NumbersUSA stating that their widely disseminated template message, item (2), suggests that tax avoidance among H1B's is legal, and in this manner promotes tax avoidance. We can ask them to remove the message, or else we refer them to IRS Compliance and Enforcement.
This is not so far-fetched---note their wording: "Congress allows foreigners..."
IRS states "The IRS continues to investigate promoters of frivolous arguments and to refer cases to the Department of Justice for criminal prosecution." http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=155289,00.html
Someone (preferably a lawyer) can write a letter to NumbersUSA stating that their widely disseminated template message, item (2), suggests that tax avoidance among H1B's is legal, and in this manner promotes tax avoidance. We can ask them to remove the message, or else we refer them to IRS Compliance and Enforcement.
This is not so far-fetched---note their wording: "Congress allows foreigners..."
more...
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snathan
04-03 11:57 PM
tens of people who come out and attack them on why they need money all the time. But they still go ahead and do it. The reason being for every 10 who ridicule the idea, there are 20 who support it.
I really admire the perseverance the core shows in moving forward.
If everything seems to be tied to donations, this is because everything needs money. You know ,keeping up this website needs money. Lobbying needs a lot of money. The other day, some one pulled the info from a public website and said 500,000$ have been already spent on lobbying. I am sure more than 90% is probably contributed y less than 5% of the members. I am not one of those 5% even remotely.
Ignore teli and Sanju. You donot need their express approval to move forward. You know why they pick on you ? Because tyou just come and expect to be welcomed as heroes for any idea you have. You need to earn those stripes, then people will follow you.
Tak one Idea. Do something with it. YOu may not get a positive result in the end , but your effort will be appreciated and people will be more receptive to your next idea.
Well said...every now and then some one will pop up with some questions and attack on IV and core... Typically it used to be like this
1. Coming up one proposal with no proper plan
2. Attack on core and asking what the core is doing all these days...?
3. What is preventing core from doing this and that...?
Dont you guys understand that core members also volunteer, they do have their full time job and family. If you believe in something you need to lead the effort. You can not expect others to work and execute your half baked ideas. Come up proper plan and convince others. Otherwise actively take part in IV issues, join state chapter. Contribute more time if you can not contribute money. Build your reputation and others will follow you.
See this Guy who op-ed this thread...once in a week/two he comes here for time pass. He is questioning everyone and advocating to contribute for the recapture though he is not even contributing a penny so far. Dont you think its funny.
I really admire the perseverance the core shows in moving forward.
If everything seems to be tied to donations, this is because everything needs money. You know ,keeping up this website needs money. Lobbying needs a lot of money. The other day, some one pulled the info from a public website and said 500,000$ have been already spent on lobbying. I am sure more than 90% is probably contributed y less than 5% of the members. I am not one of those 5% even remotely.
Ignore teli and Sanju. You donot need their express approval to move forward. You know why they pick on you ? Because tyou just come and expect to be welcomed as heroes for any idea you have. You need to earn those stripes, then people will follow you.
Tak one Idea. Do something with it. YOu may not get a positive result in the end , but your effort will be appreciated and people will be more receptive to your next idea.
Well said...every now and then some one will pop up with some questions and attack on IV and core... Typically it used to be like this
1. Coming up one proposal with no proper plan
2. Attack on core and asking what the core is doing all these days...?
3. What is preventing core from doing this and that...?
Dont you guys understand that core members also volunteer, they do have their full time job and family. If you believe in something you need to lead the effort. You can not expect others to work and execute your half baked ideas. Come up proper plan and convince others. Otherwise actively take part in IV issues, join state chapter. Contribute more time if you can not contribute money. Build your reputation and others will follow you.
See this Guy who op-ed this thread...once in a week/two he comes here for time pass. He is questioning everyone and advocating to contribute for the recapture though he is not even contributing a penny so far. Dont you think its funny.
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logiclife
01-30 01:34 PM
You can look for reviews at 3 locations.
Here, on immigrationportal.com and on desicrunch.com
Over here and on Immigrationportal.com do a search on forums by typing your company name.
On Desicrunch, I dont know how to look, dont go there very often.
Here, on immigrationportal.com and on desicrunch.com
Over here and on Immigrationportal.com do a search on forums by typing your company name.
On Desicrunch, I dont know how to look, dont go there very often.
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ashishgour
09-10 02:03 PM
Guess they had an extended lunch session...!!! Finally back..but no discussion yet...
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FucTheGC
06-06 02:35 PM
We got the "welcome" and "card production ordered" email for my wife and I today too. It was a long frustrating wait at times but I am glad its over for us now. Our best wishes to those that are still waiting.
No RFE at any stage, straight forward case, never called them for status or infopass. Took them about 4.5 years.
Here are our dates for those interested in tracking.
PD: Jan 29, 2004, EB2
Ohio labor approved - Oct 2004
45 day letter - Jan 2005
Labor approved from Dalla BEC - June 2006
I I140 regular, non concurrent approved - Sept 2006
I 485 sent to Nebraska - July 13 2007
EAD approved - Oct 2007
I485 approval email - June,06, 2008
===========
Was your I485 Approval from Neb or Texas ?
No RFE at any stage, straight forward case, never called them for status or infopass. Took them about 4.5 years.
Here are our dates for those interested in tracking.
PD: Jan 29, 2004, EB2
Ohio labor approved - Oct 2004
45 day letter - Jan 2005
Labor approved from Dalla BEC - June 2006
I I140 regular, non concurrent approved - Sept 2006
I 485 sent to Nebraska - July 13 2007
EAD approved - Oct 2007
I485 approval email - June,06, 2008
===========
Was your I485 Approval from Neb or Texas ?
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chanduv23
02-17 09:41 AM
one of the reason I would like Core Team to consider sending email about the Advocacy Day.... that email will get more inactive member like Chandu who got greened and has no good reason (nothing wrong abt it...most of us do the same) to continue visiting IV. Please consider sending one email on Feb and March.
If someone gets out because of this email I am sure he/she is not going to work on any IV activities even if IV never sent any email. Those members join IV just for some free advice and nothing else.
Pappu & StarRun consider this request and let us know where we stand on this. I had collected some content from this forum for flyers ( decided not to pursue further after discussion and advice from StarRun).
On side note, I agree with Chandu regarding convincing our spouse on these kind of expense and participation is really tough a job. We have bought up by teaching/preaching any activities other than studying (for grownups working) is not worth it.
A well drafted newsletter - on a continual basis will keep members well informed. A lot of people visit this website only for information, timepass and to rant. Some do serious stuff but most just pass time here.
Newsletters - will help reach out to wider public. The desi groceries, movie distributors, restaurants send emails and coupons, toysrus, best buy , etc... send emails, coupons, so many organizations do it and I think IV must do it to.
If someone gets out because of this email I am sure he/she is not going to work on any IV activities even if IV never sent any email. Those members join IV just for some free advice and nothing else.
Pappu & StarRun consider this request and let us know where we stand on this. I had collected some content from this forum for flyers ( decided not to pursue further after discussion and advice from StarRun).
On side note, I agree with Chandu regarding convincing our spouse on these kind of expense and participation is really tough a job. We have bought up by teaching/preaching any activities other than studying (for grownups working) is not worth it.
A well drafted newsletter - on a continual basis will keep members well informed. A lot of people visit this website only for information, timepass and to rant. Some do serious stuff but most just pass time here.
Newsletters - will help reach out to wider public. The desi groceries, movie distributors, restaurants send emails and coupons, toysrus, best buy , etc... send emails, coupons, so many organizations do it and I think IV must do it to.
anilsal
12-12 09:37 AM
Nobody knows whether congressional action is needed to allow I-485 to be filed during retrogression?
chanduv23
09-19 10:52 AM
I was part of the rally... I am proud of IV and everyone who attended it..WHAT tri-state chapter are you talking about ?? How many people are enrolled in it and how many showed up for the rally???
We have a yahoogroups - I am not sure how many attended from that but it has been passive with only few members posting always - I was constantly posting on that urging people to join the rally.
Around 80 people are signed in, you can sign in by visiting http://iv-tristate.blogspot.com/
We have a yahoogroups - I am not sure how many attended from that but it has been passive with only few members posting always - I was constantly posting on that urging people to join the rally.
Around 80 people are signed in, you can sign in by visiting http://iv-tristate.blogspot.com/
