millerb7
May 2, 11:03 AM
I find it hilarious that Steve Jobs claimed Apple was not tracking users, but now all of a sudden we find Location tracking being completely removed from this version of iOS, that is honestly something that annoyes me..
Well that's just wrong... they aren't completely removing location tracking in anything. Just fixing "bugs" that stored to much information in a file on your phone.
FAIL
Well that's just wrong... they aren't completely removing location tracking in anything. Just fixing "bugs" that stored to much information in a file on your phone.
FAIL
scu
Oct 20, 05:51 PM
Whoa dude. Good for you, but you are playing a *very, very* dangerous game leveraging that much. You don't know what could happen in the stock market. It might not have anything to do with Apple - it could be another terrorist attack in the U.S., or some other world-shaking event overseas (e.g. coup in Russia, revolts in China).
Don't do it, man. You're already making money on Apple stock - don't get greedy. Let me give you a cautionary tale: in 2000 my stock portfolio went from $100,000 to $30,000 in a matter of days. Not because the market went down by 70%, but rather because I was buying heavily on margin and the market went down by 20 or 30% or more in a few days (more in the tech stocks I owned). And I did *not* own any dot-bomb stocks. I invested in solid tech companies that are still doing well today, like BEA and IBM. The drop in stock price had *nothing* to do with the fundamental strength of the company or even their recent performance. It was just a market-wide overreaction. Give it some serious thought, man...
P.S. Since then, I've basically only invested in market-indexed funds (mostly S&P 500 but also some international funds since countries like India and China are growing faster than U.S.). I figure if I'm gonna get rich it's going to be based on what's happening in my career/professional life, not based on any investments. I just don't need the grief of seein my hard-earned cash flushed down the drain because of events I have no control over.
Yes I know it is risky. But my Margin Equity is 53% and I can not see it going down any time soon.
Don't do it, man. You're already making money on Apple stock - don't get greedy. Let me give you a cautionary tale: in 2000 my stock portfolio went from $100,000 to $30,000 in a matter of days. Not because the market went down by 70%, but rather because I was buying heavily on margin and the market went down by 20 or 30% or more in a few days (more in the tech stocks I owned). And I did *not* own any dot-bomb stocks. I invested in solid tech companies that are still doing well today, like BEA and IBM. The drop in stock price had *nothing* to do with the fundamental strength of the company or even their recent performance. It was just a market-wide overreaction. Give it some serious thought, man...
P.S. Since then, I've basically only invested in market-indexed funds (mostly S&P 500 but also some international funds since countries like India and China are growing faster than U.S.). I figure if I'm gonna get rich it's going to be based on what's happening in my career/professional life, not based on any investments. I just don't need the grief of seein my hard-earned cash flushed down the drain because of events I have no control over.
Yes I know it is risky. But my Margin Equity is 53% and I can not see it going down any time soon.
mcmadhatter
Oct 17, 08:53 AM
As soon as someone creates a dual format drive all this fuss will die down. It was the same with DVD +/- . Give it a year and NEC will have a dual format drives for both computers and players and no-one will have to decide.
bming1
Jan 13, 09:36 AM
I can name one big thing - visual voicemail. I think this is an amazing feature. Instead of waiting for the voicemail system to respond to your button inputs to skip messages so you can finally get to the one you want, you just touch the screen once. Please show me another cell phone that can do this.
As someone else has already pointed out, there are over 200 patents in the phone. While I'm certain that many are related to human factors elements and software, it's likely that there are some hardware patents involved. Only an Apple hardware engineer who was intimately involved in the design of the iPhone would be able to help you out here.
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?
remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?
As someone else has already pointed out, there are over 200 patents in the phone. While I'm certain that many are related to human factors elements and software, it's likely that there are some hardware patents involved. Only an Apple hardware engineer who was intimately involved in the design of the iPhone would be able to help you out here.
who are you kidding? what part of iphone is not previously existed in technology? yay it has a nice UI, like all other apple products, but the hardware?
remind me, again, what's revolutionary about iPhone?
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SMM
Oct 19, 08:35 PM
First Scenario: Never. Tiger added very little. Dashboard is nice but the real upgrade was merely Spotlight. Seriously... a little stability here.... fancy features there... nothing special.
From the Leopard Preview its obvious they have nothing big up their sleeves that they've shown yet. Plus if this was likely they would have multiple huge things.. which guess what.... they don't. Cause if they had tons of great stuff... they would have at least showed us once. Time Machine barely counts as something good since itll probably be a resource hog and Virtual Desktops is nice... but still doesn't seem as nicely implemented as in Linux.
Option 2: Seems more and more likely as Spring draws nearer. THE BRAND NEW ICAL.... just has a diferent brush of aluminum. And Vista while not changing anything of how XP works, it does change how it looks for the much better. Adds many Applesque touches such as attention to detail, and really does stop a lot of Spyware. I don't see it being amazing.... but it will be good. Based on what they have shown so far... if Vista isn't a resource hog, buggy, and a security risk. It'll beat Leopard. SOrry, guys but really at this point. I could even swallow one of the three for Vista to still win. Leopard is showing a weak showing currently, Jobs better have a A or two or actually 4 up his sleeves cause he needs them.
Most likely option:
Same as your most likely option except cut down Leopard down a notch. And see Apple began to stop growth around 7.5% as they are unable to justify the price gap, as new technologies start surfacing earlier in other machines... I haven't seen any hybrid technology or Blue-ray in Apple. Other companies are showing them off. Leopard better be good very good, and Apple better have some innocation in computers up their sleeves like new cases for the first time in what 8 yrs? If they want to beat 10% of the US market. We'll get the bronze by next quarter (beat Gateway) Yet. beating gateway isn't saying much. They create such bad crap, thats just shameful.
A Toast to the New Finacial Year and many new and exciting (for once) Apple Products.... I mean stuff girls can get excited... not just Intel CPUs. :p
Nice analysis. Unfortunately I disagree with most of it, as do most of the analysts who write about such things. I do like the fact that you present an intelligent reason for your personal preferences (which these are).
From the Leopard Preview its obvious they have nothing big up their sleeves that they've shown yet. Plus if this was likely they would have multiple huge things.. which guess what.... they don't. Cause if they had tons of great stuff... they would have at least showed us once. Time Machine barely counts as something good since itll probably be a resource hog and Virtual Desktops is nice... but still doesn't seem as nicely implemented as in Linux.
Option 2: Seems more and more likely as Spring draws nearer. THE BRAND NEW ICAL.... just has a diferent brush of aluminum. And Vista while not changing anything of how XP works, it does change how it looks for the much better. Adds many Applesque touches such as attention to detail, and really does stop a lot of Spyware. I don't see it being amazing.... but it will be good. Based on what they have shown so far... if Vista isn't a resource hog, buggy, and a security risk. It'll beat Leopard. SOrry, guys but really at this point. I could even swallow one of the three for Vista to still win. Leopard is showing a weak showing currently, Jobs better have a A or two or actually 4 up his sleeves cause he needs them.
Most likely option:
Same as your most likely option except cut down Leopard down a notch. And see Apple began to stop growth around 7.5% as they are unable to justify the price gap, as new technologies start surfacing earlier in other machines... I haven't seen any hybrid technology or Blue-ray in Apple. Other companies are showing them off. Leopard better be good very good, and Apple better have some innocation in computers up their sleeves like new cases for the first time in what 8 yrs? If they want to beat 10% of the US market. We'll get the bronze by next quarter (beat Gateway) Yet. beating gateway isn't saying much. They create such bad crap, thats just shameful.
A Toast to the New Finacial Year and many new and exciting (for once) Apple Products.... I mean stuff girls can get excited... not just Intel CPUs. :p
Nice analysis. Unfortunately I disagree with most of it, as do most of the analysts who write about such things. I do like the fact that you present an intelligent reason for your personal preferences (which these are).
gorgeousninja
Apr 17, 06:24 AM
Everything on the original iPhone was already in use by other phones. Apple simply combined them all together in one phone and made it simpler to use. It revolutionized yeah, by simply bringing that stuff to the front of peoples minds.
oh so they just 'brought all those things together, and made it easier to use'..
Isn't that just a very ungracious way of saying that Apple introduced a phone the like of which no-one had seen before and thus revolutionized the market then?
oh so they just 'brought all those things together, and made it easier to use'..
Isn't that just a very ungracious way of saying that Apple introduced a phone the like of which no-one had seen before and thus revolutionized the market then?
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The Scotsman
Jan 12, 06:36 PM
Look, people--
There is nothing amazingly new or innovative technology-wise in the iPhone. Everything in it has been done before, and it does not even employ some of the latest (3G) features that its competition does.
Niether did the original iPod. Grasshopper, go and learn from Thread #500. People thought that product was "crippled" by high price and no new technology ("An overpriced HDD-based mp3 player with a B&W LCD display? Who cares?").
I predict that Apple will have 20% of the entire cell phone market and 50+% of the high-end communication device within three years of its June release. That will mean 150-200 million units.
In the intervening six months before formal release, or shortly thereafter, some of the smaller issues will be attended to (like the ability to at least open and review MS files, sync'ing issues, interfacing w/iTunes Store, what have you). The rest won't matter.
Apple does not sell products, people. They sell personal productivity, great user experiences, wow and chic. This phone phone meets all of those criteria. For consumer devices like these, a streamlined and intuitive user experience is like money in the bank. The only thing innovative about the iPod is the stupid click-wheel, and yet 75% of the ENTIRE aac/mp3 player market is controlled by ONE COMPANY. The one with the click-wheel.
So it is with this product. If the final build quality of the unit proves durable, reliable, and cosmetically superior, and the unit functions as billed, it will not only make a huge forray into that giant market, but essentially create a new one.
Right now, the "smartphone" is really a piece of business equipment. Apple just invented the quintessential "consumer" version of the same product. It doesn't matter that it is expensive or lacks some high-end features. If is actually works as effortlessly and seamlessly as billed, it will become another cultural icon. Apple marketing will see to it that everyone on the planet is aware of how "cool" this device is.
I'm glad to be on record here. I hope that when this thread is reviewed three years from now, everyone is talking about the foolish naysayers of Thread #3245138 (or whatever this one is).
I agree with your predictions but I do not think it will be got with the 1st gen iPhone. iPod was not good until a range started and I think the phone will be the same.
There is nothing amazingly new or innovative technology-wise in the iPhone. Everything in it has been done before, and it does not even employ some of the latest (3G) features that its competition does.
Niether did the original iPod. Grasshopper, go and learn from Thread #500. People thought that product was "crippled" by high price and no new technology ("An overpriced HDD-based mp3 player with a B&W LCD display? Who cares?").
I predict that Apple will have 20% of the entire cell phone market and 50+% of the high-end communication device within three years of its June release. That will mean 150-200 million units.
In the intervening six months before formal release, or shortly thereafter, some of the smaller issues will be attended to (like the ability to at least open and review MS files, sync'ing issues, interfacing w/iTunes Store, what have you). The rest won't matter.
Apple does not sell products, people. They sell personal productivity, great user experiences, wow and chic. This phone phone meets all of those criteria. For consumer devices like these, a streamlined and intuitive user experience is like money in the bank. The only thing innovative about the iPod is the stupid click-wheel, and yet 75% of the ENTIRE aac/mp3 player market is controlled by ONE COMPANY. The one with the click-wheel.
So it is with this product. If the final build quality of the unit proves durable, reliable, and cosmetically superior, and the unit functions as billed, it will not only make a huge forray into that giant market, but essentially create a new one.
Right now, the "smartphone" is really a piece of business equipment. Apple just invented the quintessential "consumer" version of the same product. It doesn't matter that it is expensive or lacks some high-end features. If is actually works as effortlessly and seamlessly as billed, it will become another cultural icon. Apple marketing will see to it that everyone on the planet is aware of how "cool" this device is.
I'm glad to be on record here. I hope that when this thread is reviewed three years from now, everyone is talking about the foolish naysayers of Thread #3245138 (or whatever this one is).
I agree with your predictions but I do not think it will be got with the 1st gen iPhone. iPod was not good until a range started and I think the phone will be the same.
iphoneIA
May 3, 11:18 PM
A great commercial. As a teacher who is getting 30 ipads for next years students I am super pumped. These truly are the future of education and I can't wait to have my students start using them.
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Mac-Mariachi
Apr 16, 12:45 AM
Everyone keeps saying that aluminum will mess with the signal. But what I'm wondering about is how will the iPad 3G will deal with that? Is 3G iPad going to look different than Wifi model thats currently out?
Notice the black bar in the Wi-Fi + 3G image
http://www.marcelacanales.com/wifi.jpg
Notice the black bar in the Wi-Fi + 3G image
http://www.marcelacanales.com/wifi.jpg
maflynn
Apr 12, 07:53 AM
No need to argue or try to change his mind. When someone is very close minded there is no reasoning.
Agreed.
There are some really good PC manufacturers and for some windows is a good fit. OSX has some great advantages over windows, but it also has some disadvantages. You pick the computer (and OS) that best fits your needs. I like the idea of building my own computer and I can pick exactly what components I want into the computer - that's another option. You can then run windows or OSX (or even Linux) depending on which you prefer.
The childish fanboyism the posted here does nothing to add to the dialog.
Agreed.
There are some really good PC manufacturers and for some windows is a good fit. OSX has some great advantages over windows, but it also has some disadvantages. You pick the computer (and OS) that best fits your needs. I like the idea of building my own computer and I can pick exactly what components I want into the computer - that's another option. You can then run windows or OSX (or even Linux) depending on which you prefer.
The childish fanboyism the posted here does nothing to add to the dialog.
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sn
Apr 26, 04:42 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)
I think the image has been played around with a bit but I don't know if that means it's definitely fake. It looks like everything in the image (hand, keyboard) are so brightly lit that the screen on the phone would have to look a lot more glarey/reflective/shiny than that. Unless the new screen is also a lot more matte. But it doesn't look right to me. Or maybe it's paper like a few people have suggested.
Edit, just realised the screen is obviously not more matte after looking at the second picture. I refuse to believe those are the same screens! Definitely suspicious...
I also believe that, as someone has suggested, the handset might be a tad smaller rather that the screen being bigger.
I think the image has been played around with a bit but I don't know if that means it's definitely fake. It looks like everything in the image (hand, keyboard) are so brightly lit that the screen on the phone would have to look a lot more glarey/reflective/shiny than that. Unless the new screen is also a lot more matte. But it doesn't look right to me. Or maybe it's paper like a few people have suggested.
Edit, just realised the screen is obviously not more matte after looking at the second picture. I refuse to believe those are the same screens! Definitely suspicious...
I also believe that, as someone has suggested, the handset might be a tad smaller rather that the screen being bigger.
samcraig
Apr 5, 05:49 PM
If Google or anyone else had done this - everyone would be laughing there asses off. And so it stands to reason, that this "app" is completely laughable. And pathetic....
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Di9it8
Nov 23, 04:53 PM
Would a US .Mac code bought now work in the UK in February? ;-)
Should work anywhere from date of first use/registration:rolleyes:
Should work anywhere from date of first use/registration:rolleyes:
twoodcc
May 3, 11:03 AM
I've finally got it folding, took a while cuz I didn't have the bios set to boot from USB-cdrom, that USB part is important :o also I tried Ubuntu 10.4 but there is a problem with folding and libc on 10.4 so I tried a copy of 8.04 that I had and it didn't want to install. I finally had to download 9.10 and after getting it installed, folding on it and configured; it works:D woo hoo! It's always something when I install Linux but I usually figure it out after a while...
I trid to go to 4Ghz but I must not have set something right and it didn't work so I went back to stock 3.33, it folded the first frame in 27 minutes which is exactly what my mac pro does: for less than half the cost. I then set it to 3.6 Ghz and it seems to be stable without upping the voltage. I hope it can do a frame in 25 minutes :p I'm waiting to see...
oh wow. yeah i had the same problem with 10.4 - i also had to run 9.10.
yeah you'd have to change the voltages to get it to work at 4.0 ghz. but 3.6 should be good (i think)
Great you have it working now and hopefully it will stay up a week.
I had a power outage that I didn't know about and didn't check all of my machines for a day, oh well it's only 20 or 30 thousand points :rolleyes:
edit: added pics
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white style, Paris, France
Black and white wedding
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Paris, France (lack and white
Solidays festival, Paris
Paris, France (lack and white
I trid to go to 4Ghz but I must not have set something right and it didn't work so I went back to stock 3.33, it folded the first frame in 27 minutes which is exactly what my mac pro does: for less than half the cost. I then set it to 3.6 Ghz and it seems to be stable without upping the voltage. I hope it can do a frame in 25 minutes :p I'm waiting to see...
oh wow. yeah i had the same problem with 10.4 - i also had to run 9.10.
yeah you'd have to change the voltages to get it to work at 4.0 ghz. but 3.6 should be good (i think)
Great you have it working now and hopefully it will stay up a week.
I had a power outage that I didn't know about and didn't check all of my machines for a day, oh well it's only 20 or 30 thousand points :rolleyes:
edit: added pics
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puuukeey
Jan 9, 04:04 PM
he said he was sorry... I trust him
MattSepeta
Apr 27, 01:23 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender it's all a bit grey there....
Having been a transgender individual in a potentially life threatening situation a couple of times, generally I informed them of my medical history like any sane patient would.
You're focusing on selective binary aspects of sex in a topic relating to transgender people, do you not think that this could be seen as somewhat offensive and inappropriate?
As I said, I am what I am, I'm fine with that, I just don't appreciate you "helpfully" pointing out that there are certain aspects of sex-differentiation you can't erase.
That does not mean you're not being a douchebag when you directly or indirectly call a transsexual woman a man or male, even citing your oversimplified ideas of sex and gender. It propagates a culture that sees us in terms of our troubled history rather than who we are and in some cases will be.
Does that make things clear for you? I'm not trying to be confrontational for the sake of it.
I am missing the argument here.... I never meant to be seen as defending "3gsiphone" or whatever that guys name is.... Because his words WERE rude and innapropriate and discriminatory. Damn right they were.
Having been a transgender individual in a potentially life threatening situation a couple of times, generally I informed them of my medical history like any sane patient would.
You're focusing on selective binary aspects of sex in a topic relating to transgender people, do you not think that this could be seen as somewhat offensive and inappropriate?
As I said, I am what I am, I'm fine with that, I just don't appreciate you "helpfully" pointing out that there are certain aspects of sex-differentiation you can't erase.
That does not mean you're not being a douchebag when you directly or indirectly call a transsexual woman a man or male, even citing your oversimplified ideas of sex and gender. It propagates a culture that sees us in terms of our troubled history rather than who we are and in some cases will be.
Does that make things clear for you? I'm not trying to be confrontational for the sake of it.
I am missing the argument here.... I never meant to be seen as defending "3gsiphone" or whatever that guys name is.... Because his words WERE rude and innapropriate and discriminatory. Damn right they were.
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Jon'sLightBulbs
Nov 27, 09:25 PM
Look at these numbers. Is that anything to write home about?
Shure E3C headphones for 139 instead of 199? I think you should write grandma immediately. Boy do they sound sweet!
Shure E3C headphones for 139 instead of 199? I think you should write grandma immediately. Boy do they sound sweet!
ZipZap
May 4, 04:54 AM
North American cellular providers are anti-consumer, nickel & diming scumbags? Say it ain't so...
:rolleyes:
With this I agree...!
:rolleyes:
With this I agree...!
dyler
Oct 8, 12:50 PM
This is false advertising, Verizon does not have that 3G coverage and ATT has more than that. Verizon is the worst service I have ever used with the worst Phones I have ever used, MY iPhone works in more places than my Verizon phone ever did, this is all lies and Congress should talk about that not exclusive carrier models!!
iMeowbot
Oct 28, 05:44 PM
Isn't a healthy chunk of OS X based on FreeBSD?
Yes, big parts of it come from the BSD world.
A free, open source Unix distro? In a sense, if they use FreeBSD and do not contribute back to the very open source community they're borrowing from, doesn't that make Apple a thief?
The BSD terms specifically allow derivatives to keep their sources closed, as long as credit is given.
Yes, big parts of it come from the BSD world.
A free, open source Unix distro? In a sense, if they use FreeBSD and do not contribute back to the very open source community they're borrowing from, doesn't that make Apple a thief?
The BSD terms specifically allow derivatives to keep their sources closed, as long as credit is given.
samcraig
May 2, 12:07 PM
Oh the conspiracies!!!!
As a software developer, the explanation that Apple gave seems far more plausible than "they are tracking your every move".
It makes total sense to keep a cache of cell tower positions to speed up positioning through trilateration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateration). It also makes sense for Apple to maintain this as a crowd-sourced database and download part of it to your phone. Further, it makes sense for a developer to make an arbitrary decision to say "let's make the cache size 2MB -- that's smaller than a single song". Finally, it makes sense for QA to miss this since the file is not readily visible through the user interface. A very good article on this is here (http://www.macworld.com/article/159528/2011/04/how_iphone_location_works.html).
Oooh. You're a software developer. That makes you an expert.
Except - as someone who is surround by IT professionals - many of which create systems that are governed by strict compliance issues - ALL of them have stated that 2MB is ridiculous for a cache of the intended purpose. And that QA could have missed this - but the fact that they did is really bad.
Look - defend Apple all you want. Don't really care. At the end of the day - a switch that is supposed to turn something off should turn something off. I know it. You know it. And Apple knows it - which is why they are (for WHATEVER reason) making the switch work correctly. End of story.
P.S. - Since Apple does great marketing and pr spin (my profession) - while I don't buy all the conspiracy theories at all - but neither do I "trust" Apple's altruism nor their rhetoric just because "they say so."
As a software developer, the explanation that Apple gave seems far more plausible than "they are tracking your every move".
It makes total sense to keep a cache of cell tower positions to speed up positioning through trilateration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateration). It also makes sense for Apple to maintain this as a crowd-sourced database and download part of it to your phone. Further, it makes sense for a developer to make an arbitrary decision to say "let's make the cache size 2MB -- that's smaller than a single song". Finally, it makes sense for QA to miss this since the file is not readily visible through the user interface. A very good article on this is here (http://www.macworld.com/article/159528/2011/04/how_iphone_location_works.html).
Oooh. You're a software developer. That makes you an expert.
Except - as someone who is surround by IT professionals - many of which create systems that are governed by strict compliance issues - ALL of them have stated that 2MB is ridiculous for a cache of the intended purpose. And that QA could have missed this - but the fact that they did is really bad.
Look - defend Apple all you want. Don't really care. At the end of the day - a switch that is supposed to turn something off should turn something off. I know it. You know it. And Apple knows it - which is why they are (for WHATEVER reason) making the switch work correctly. End of story.
P.S. - Since Apple does great marketing and pr spin (my profession) - while I don't buy all the conspiracy theories at all - but neither do I "trust" Apple's altruism nor their rhetoric just because "they say so."
JohnnyQuest
Mar 17, 11:01 AM
Lets keep the flaming going lol, Maybe it will reach 500 posts, lmao funny how people believe everything they read in a forum, sec I'm also a lawyer, and Doctor, yea I can pick any profession I want on MacRumors, everyone enjoy their iPad, I'm going back to the real world, while the debate in this thread continues.
So you just lied about the whole thing? Or now you actually feel bad so you're trying to turn the tables on everyone who's calling you out?
Uh, you're cool.
So you just lied about the whole thing? Or now you actually feel bad so you're trying to turn the tables on everyone who's calling you out?
Uh, you're cool.
brepublican
Oct 4, 08:29 PM
This is HOT *****!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the 'true video iPod'. And a stunning live performance! By Dido or Alicia Keys - with SJ going 'Wooo' at the end of the live performance :D :D
And is it wierd that I keep watching last month's keynote (just the end of it though) for that sizzling John Legend performance?? I've seen it like more than thrice already...
And is it wierd that I keep watching last month's keynote (just the end of it though) for that sizzling John Legend performance?? I've seen it like more than thrice already...
marcelo002
Sep 12, 08:47 AM
I have actually rented a movie from the Unbox store and despite a crappy UI, problems starting the download, and having to use an S-video cable to connect my laptop to the TV, I found the experience better than expected.
Just how bad were you expecting Unbox to be?
That's like saying despite my flight being delayed, the airline losing my luggage, and my hotel burning down, my vacation wasnt too bad...
Just how bad were you expecting Unbox to be?
That's like saying despite my flight being delayed, the airline losing my luggage, and my hotel burning down, my vacation wasnt too bad...
